Talk:DFW Wiki

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CAN WE change the wiki picture to one of DFW? Perhaps the one of him in the corn field or with his dogs? Something other than that sunflower? Cgf02007 01:18, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

I am putting this at the top of the discussion page in order to try to facilitate actual discussion:

I do not think the phrase:

"Also: "whether indicated or otherwise" ...this is a SNOOT position, i.e. a snobbish thing to say as one should indeed take responsibility for what one says online - just like in the real world."

should be on the front page of the wiki. Rudy 23:12, 6 May 2009 (PDT)

Other comments to this effect:

There seems to be a silent war waging over whether the "SNOOT" paragraph should stay or go. For the integrity of the wiki, that paragraph should absolutely go or be substantiated by a whole lot of Wallace-related evidence. There's no point in erasing and replacing it ad infinitum. I'm assuming that the person who wrote it the first time replaced it the second, so if it is only one person who believes it has a place in the wiki, please substantiate that belief or delete the paragraph. If there are multiple people who believe the paragraph is germane, please explain your logic. --Cgf02007 19:55, 6 May 2009 (PDT)

Seeing no argument in favor of keeping the "SNOOT" paragraph on the main page, I deleted it. Cgf02007 20:06, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

This is getting unnecessary. Icantbelieveyoujustsaidthat, either justify your rationale for keeping the "SNOOT" paragraph or stop editing it back into the text. The rest of the class seems to believe it has no place in this wiki. Cgf02007 00:37, 9 May 2009 (PDT)

This is a discussion page. KF 15:52, 13 April 2009 (PDT)

I suggest we start a discussion about the use of the forum here, on the main page's discussion page. That way, it doesn't get lost in the inevitable shuffle. Ryan 16:39, 13 April 2009 (PDT)

I like the idea of creating a wiki project that bridges together recurring themes across Wallace's body of works.

Possible themes (gathered by flipping through my notes and scrolling through the class blog) include: the big ones, like the inability/difficulty to communicate/connect, self vs. other (including loneliness, solipsism, selfishness, selflessness, and commonality), pain and suffering, awareness vs. oblivion, the use of irony, addiction, consumption, death,

and smaller ones, such as distance (the role distance plays in various writings), metafiction, storytelling, pretending, escapism, time, freedom and autonomy (the ability to choose and how to choose), the game, cliches, the (deformed) body, recursive loops and infinity.

I am sure there are way more, this list being just a start. Maybe we can each choose a theme we like and write about that theme (pulling together all the resources we've got from the primary and secondary texts and blogs, etc.), or if it's a hefty theme, then a couple of us can work on that theme together, or if we are so inclined, each of us can work on on multiple themes.

Thanks to the person who fixed the non-fiction link. yay! Tammy 21:26, 6 May 2009 (PDT) What do you all think? Tammy 10:03, 14 April 2009 (PDT)

I like the idea of creating pages for major themes- I know I would've liked a wiki that explained themes and provided links to the different places those themes come up across DFW's oeuvre. I think people should start writing about whatever themes interest them, but I think we should all agree to work on other peoples's themes, because I think this should be a fundamentally collaborate effort. thanks. emrad 12:29, 15 April 2009 (PDT)

I think that with the number of people in the class, if we each handled one dissertation that devotes a chapter or more to a DFW work, we could pretty easily handle all of them. That seems to me to be a really important thing to do, if this wiki intends to be seriously comprehensive. Plus, if we were all to post our works cited, we've probably read and used something from every dissertation involving DFW for our last paper. Cgf02007 12:48, 15 April 2009 (PDT)

Checking something... Meg 20:57, 17 April 2009 (PDT)

Okay, this probably doesn't matter much, but I was just noticing that the time-stamps on the "recent changes" page seem to be Greenwich Mean Time, but here they are correct for us. In case anybody else gets confused.Meg 20:59, 17 April 2009 (PDT)

I'm going to start throwing templates on some of the novels and nonfiction collections. Feel free to add anything I miss or take out anything that you think is dumb. MR 22:16, 21 April 2009 (PDT)

So, in attempting to write my first entry on A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again (the essay) I'm finding it difficult to split up my analysis into the themes. Instead, I would much rather write a smooth mini-essay connecting all of the themes into one coherent piece of writing rather then awkwardly try to tease out each theme in a little block of writing. Does any one else feel this way? Is there anyway we could, under the themes section, just list the important themes, but keep our analysis to one block of writing if we wish? What do you all think? lrose 03:09, 24 April 2009 (PDT)

Hey Lrose, That sounds good. We can definitely see what works and what does and change our style/format accordingly as we develop this wiki. Tammy 06:11, 24 April 2009 (PDT)

Hey Class, After browsing through several pages, I just wanted to ask if, as a class, we all want to stick with the MLA parenthetical citation model when we quote writing, just as we do in more formal English papers. Also, I think it's super important that in quoting, we provide some sort of reference to page numbers, if applicable. Tammy 06:25, 24 April 2009 (PDT)

rrr, why can't I figure out how to find a table of contents page for our wiki, i.e. a page that displays all the pages that have been created thus far? Has a Quotes page been created already? I'll try to make one right now, but if one already exists, I'll delete mine. Tammy 07:24, 24 April 2009 (PDT)

What do you all think about using other peoples' blog entries? Is that ok? We have some great stuff on the blog, which could easily translate into the Wiki. Basically I'm wondering if we want to consider the blog collective and all draw from what we see fit to use in our own entries here, or if we'd rather only get to use our own entries...--emrad 12:37, 24 April 2009 (PDT)

I would have no objection to seeing the blog as collective and thus allowing us to glean from the blog as we see fit. But that is just my vote. lrose 13:10, 24 April 2009 (PDT)

I think it would be courteous to notify the writer of the blog (somehow) that you'd like to use some of his/her writings or ideas, just so the writer knows his/her material is being used and has the opportunity to make any corrections and changes or object. Tammy 21:38, 24 April 2009 (PDT)

Seeking your opinion: What do you guys think re using students' and/or professor's thoughts and ideas from our class discussions on the Wiki (for an example, please see E&M page)? I don't think class discussion material is necessarily formal enough for an actual wikipedia entry, but since this is our class wiki, I think it's up to us. My reason for putting it in is 1) I thought it was a well-expressed and wonderful idea and 2) Wallace gives a part of himself to his readers by inserting himself in his supposedly non-fictional articles. Can we also give a part of ourselves, our class, to future readers of the wiki by imparting pieces of our class discussions? Tammy 21:51, 24 April 2009 (PDT)

Tammy, I'm ok with using class discussion for the blog. But I also wanted to ask everyone what they thought about the main DFW page, the one that got copied from wikipedia. Does anyone else think we should not use the wikipedia page and instead construct our own introduction and format? I'm not quite sure what we would do, but maybe we should talk about it in class? I'm just not sure we need the wikipedia entry if it is already on wikipedia... lrose 19:35, 25 April 2009 (PDT)

I agree that we shouldn't use the Wikipedia. I just put it up there so we could start linking to other things... --emrad 14:04, 26 April 2009 (PDT)

Question: What did we decide "Voice" is again? (Any examples?) I don't remember... lrose 19:51, 26 April 2009 (PDT)

I started changing the main page just a little bit, adding a separate works page with links that hopefully will all work together. I just took the one from the wikipedia bio, so not sure if we should take it out on the bio? thoughts? Erinlikescupcakes 17:12, 29 April 2009 (PDT)

As per our class discussion today: Reidau, I'm working on "A Supposedly Fun Thing" (the essay) and I really liked your blog post called "Above it All" and I think it would work well as criticism for that essay. Would you like to work with the post and do the criticism section, or do you want me to take it? lrose 18:27, 29 April 2009 (PDT)

I was thinking that we could add a "discussion questions" category for each book, and the groups who did them could post the questions they used in class. Can everyone get their questions up? Thanks! [[User:Erinlikescupcakes|--emrad 14:18, 1 May 2009 (PDT)Erinlikescupcakes]] 18:48, 29 April 2009 (PDT)

Note to self: don't try editing a page while someone else tries to do the same in a different way. It gets confusing fast. Ryan 20:36, 29 April 2009 (PDT)

haha i enjoyed it, it was a battle till the end

Julius, I am hoping it is ok to use your blog post on Suicide as a Sort of Present for the page for that story. OK? Erinlikescupcakes 21:04, 29 April 2009 (PDT)

Here's a question: do we really need the spoiler claims/the "Snape" business? I think it's kind of obvious that pages about books are going to spoil the plots of those books, and seeing as this applies to every book piece on the wiki (essentially), is it worth it just figuring such warnings are obvious and leaving it at that? This is the approach Wikipedia proper has taken w/r/t spoilers. Ryan 23:48, 29 April 2009 (PDT)

I think it is appropriate and sensible to have a spoiler alert on the Main Page, but do not think its necessary to repeat that spoiler warning in individual posts; once is enough. Additionally, I think that "Snape kills Dumbledore" is off topic and unnecessary, as there is no relation to Harry Potter in Wallace's work, or in our discussion of it.--emrad 01:07, 30 April 2009 (PDT)

I agree that the Harry Potter reference is too cutesy and too off topic. Nor do I think that each page needs to be marked with something so unnecessary. The warning is on the front page and that is good enough. I changed it something more formal, but if anyone wants to change it further (but for the love of god, don't change it back) go ahead. Sherlockelly 15:01, 30 April 2009 (PDT)

SO overall, I am seeing some diffferent approaches to the "THEMES/MOTIFS" section on the pages for stories/essays. I had started doing a subtitle, like with the three equals signs around it, for each theme and then below that writing about that theme. And these subtitles can be linked. Other pages have bullet points instead. I know this is a small thing to worry about, but it would be really nice to have consistent formatting throughout all the story/essay pages. Thoughts? I just liked the subtitling,



Blahblahblah here is how humor is used


Blah bah here is how he talks about and uses light as a motif

Because the letters are bigger than in the bullet format. Erinlikescupcakes 02:40, 30 April 2009 (PDT)

I think the majority of people are doing the subtitling so we should probably stick to that. And I also second emrad on the Harry Potter thing--it seems a bit inappropriate. lrose 12:21, 30 April 2009 (PDT)

Another thing: I think every page should have a line at the top with links back to either the main page that that page was linked from. So all IJ pages should have a link back to IJ or to David Foster Wallace, and all theme pages should have links back to the main theme page, and every main page of a work should have a link back to the works list, etc. lrose 14:35, 30 April 2009 (PDT)

Hey does anybody know how to link to the middle of a page? Like if you're at a theme page, and you click on a book in which it occurs, can that link take you right to the examples (that could be halfway down the page)? Or can we just link to the top of it? MR 17:22, 30 April 2009 (PDT)

Ok, let's just leave the spoiler warning as is, ok? It's an awfully petty thing to quibble about, so let's not. --emrad 14:18, 1 May 2009 (PDT)

How are people quoting lines from a footnote? Am I supposed to show that what I'm quoting is from a footnote like "blah blah" (fn 4, 220) or do I just mark the page like "blahh" (220)? Mhaley 14:15, 2 May 2009 (PDT)

MR, I figured out how to link to the middle of the page:

#REDIRECT [[Page you want#Heading you want]]

ex) #REDIRECT [[Greatly Exaggerated#The Death of the Author]]

--emrad 12:09, 3 May 2009 (PDT)

Lauren- can i use one of your blog posts about oblivion for some story entries? thanks! Erinlikescupcakes 17:52, 4 May 2009 (PDT)

Hey erin--yeah, of course! go for it. lrose 17:56, 4 May 2009 (PDT)

thanks emrad. nice find! MR 13:58, 5 May 2009 (PDT)

Something of note for everyone: the site could use some redirects. I've added some (e.g. "Michael Joyce" now redirects to the article about same), but there are more places they could go than I can add them.

The formatting is:

#REDIRECT [[pagename]]

Thanks in advance. Ryan 19:24, 5 May 2009 (PDT)

Hey y'all (and in particular emrad and ryan), I could not for the life of me figure out how to insert an internal link. I tried following both of your directions, but neither seems to work for me. Take a look at the IJ page under style, toward the bottom. Why isn't it working? Can you please let me know / change it in a way that I will know how to do this in the future? Thanks! Tammy 17:13, 6 May 2009 (PDT)

Also, Ryan, what am I doing wrong with my redirect attempts on the "Getting Away" page? I'm trying to redirect to the "Michael Joyce" paper. Thanks Cgf02007 20:03, 6 May 2009 (PDT)

Thanks to the person who fixed the non-fiction link. yay! Tammy 21:26, 6 May 2009 (PDT)

Hey, I added Wallace's reader to the main page. I thought it was an important page to create. Please add more to the page if you have additional thoughts (which I know you do) regarding Wallace's readership/the Wallace reader. Also, if you feel that this page does not belong on the main page, we can discuss other possibilities as well! Tammy 23:10, 6 May 2009 (PDT)

I don't really understand what you mean by Wallace's Reader...and calling it that seems to be confusing. My first thought when I hear "Wallace's Reader" is that Wallace put together a collection of works, like a class reader, or it is a collection of works from Wallace. Rudy 23:17, 6 May 2009 (PDT)

God, I'm having an impossible time trying to put on the wiki a link to a PDF version of the Illinois State Fair essay Wallace wrote that ran in Harper's, is anybody a wiki wiz and familiar with this procedure? the wikihelp pages, once they get past basic stuff like creating bullets, read like Latin to me...Thanks. Cgf02007 23:23, 6 May 2009 (PDT)

Rudy, I changed the link...reader is lower-case; otherwise, the link doesn't take you anywhere. Would you propose a term other than Wallace's reader? That's the most accurate and straightforward one I could think of, even though I do agree with you, that it could momentarily be interpreted in the other way, but once you click on the link, doesn't it become clear--what we mean by Wallace's reader? Tammy 09:40, 7 May 2009 (PDT)

How about: "The reader of Wallace's writing" or "Wallace's audience" or "To whom Wallace writes"?Cgf02007 16:29, 7 May 2009 (PDT)

can everyone please put up their discussion questions on the page of the book you were responsible for? thanks! Erinlikescupcakes 11:29, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

Hey Cgf, I liked your ideas--so I changed the title to a combination of them. Is that okay? Tammy 12:08, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

Yeah, well chosen. I like. Cgf02007 12:42, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

Consistency question: some pages say "Plot," others "Summary." Should we change them all to "Summary," since that makes sense for the non-fiction pieces as well? Meg 12:51, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

YES, summary sounds good. we should all just start changing those. Erinlikescupcakes 13:07, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

Hey all, as you can probably see, the main page has been altered a bit. I added an overview of our wiki, addressing it to potential wiki readers. I deleted the feeling lost and confused and misdirected part, just because i didn't see why anyone should be at this point. I made the spoilers part more concise and less like an intense CAUTION message that might scare readers away. Please comment on these changes and edit as you see fit. Tammy 13:33, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

Tammy- looks really great. nice work.

Hey, I asked Kathleen about a link to the eulogy of Wallace that she presented to the faculty and read to our class. I thought we could include it on the Wallace Bio page or some other place that you see fit. Here is the link: What do you guys think? Tammy 13:41, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

Thanks! Tammy 13:41, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

I like this. I'm putting it in the 'death' section of the bio page, unless somebody thinks it goes better somewhere else. Meg 14:03, 8 May 2009 (PDT)

who is in charge of little expressionless animals? it's pretty much blank in terms of themes/commentary. i will try to work on it, but is there someone else who could do it along with me? thanks. Erinlikescupcakes 14:00, 8 May 2009 (PDT)