What is a non-simulacric social order and when did it exist? On page 11 Baudrillard mentions a "lost sociality", a theme that continues to recur throughout the book. I am confused however as to what this social order might be like and why it would be so much better than our current one; I would think that since Baudrillard is very keen on freedom from control and a resolution of class conflict, that he would find older social orders possibly more restrictive than our own. I suppose this touches on the much-discussed issue of reading Baudrillard's discussion of the lost referent as an onological vs epistemological change. Despite some evidence that Baudrillard has a pre-capital, pre-simulacrum, utopia in mind (his discussion of capital as driving the process of simulation on page 22), this seems so naive that I can't quite believe it, despite passages like the following (also on 22): "As long as the historical threat came at it from the real, power played at deterrence and simulation..." which serve to further confuse things. And don't forget the barely more palatable: "What should have been placed in Beaubourg? Nothing. The void would have signified the disappearance of any culture of meaning and aesthetic sentiment" (64). In any case, does anyone have a sense for what Baudrillard is after with his seemingly archaistic statements about social order?